18:27	Theorymon	edgar can you tell me your view in that youtube video about banning stuff in Ubers? don't have my headphones atm >_>
18:29	edgar	it's not technically banning haha
18:30	edgar	I was ranting
18:30	Theorymon	oh rofl
18:30	edgar	and explaining how they are broken
18:30	Theorymon	Im actually
18:30	Theorymon	making a somewhat large comment
18:30	Theorymon	on the youtube video lol
18:30	Theorymon	I sorta feel like
18:30	edgar	but geo xern is quite broken 
18:30	Theorymon	banning them would go against the spirit of Ubers. dont get me wrong, Im not actually disagreing with brokenness
18:30	Theorymon	but every since I got into Ubers
18:30	Theorymon	brokeness has just been
18:30	Theorymon	something I accpeted
18:31	Theorymon	like
18:31	Theorymon	I remember something similar was talked about
18:31	Theorymon	when BP Mew
18:31	Theorymon	started getting really popular
18:31	Theorymon	totally different reasoning obviously
18:31	edgar	yeah
18:31	edgar	idk
18:31	Theorymon	like
18:31	edgar	its just basic reasoning from someone who played BW2 alot
18:32	Theorymon	in general the motto of Ubers has always been "its okay to be broken"
18:32	Theorymon	gen 5 was just really weird
18:32	Theorymon	in that things actually got balanced sorta lol
18:32	Theorymon	like in gen 4
18:32	Theorymon	leads where
18:32	Theorymon	ultra centralized
18:32	Theorymon	and not having a good Kyogre check was pretty suicidal there
18:32	Theorymon	idk, I guess like
18:33	Theorymon	banning stuff like that would be against the reason some of us play Ubers. but hmm...
18:33	Theorymon	if this becomes big, I wonder what we should do...
18:33	Theorymon	by big I mean cries for a ban
18:33	Theorymon	fyi, in the begining of gen 5
18:33	Theorymon	there was
18:33	Theorymon	a sigifigant amount of people
18:33	Theorymon	who wanted Arceus banned
18:33	Theorymon	but then as the gen progressed
18:33	Theorymon	people just came to accept Arceus
18:34	edgar	yeah 
18:34	edgar	idk man
18:34	edgar	I just think
18:35	edgar	it's not really fair to run a pokemon that a lot of people consider "bad" just for 1 mon
18:35	Theorymon	(also oddly enough, Im damn near tempted to boot geoxern from my Wobboffense team, its almost never the mon that sweeps because I see people really prepare for the thing lol)
18:35	Theorymon	I don't really mind tbh
18:35	edgar	mega gengar does the job better ;9
18:35	Theorymon	I remember in gen 4
18:35	Theorymon	some of us
18:35	edgar	
18:35	Theorymon	started running
18:35	Theorymon	fuckin Quagsire
18:35	Theorymon	who was totally crap outside of Kyogre lol
18:36	Theorymon	(this was gen 4)
18:36	edgar	lol
18:36	Theorymon	edgar Im using both =)
18:36	Theorymon	whats hilarious on the ladder
18:36	Theorymon	is when people
18:36	Theorymon	Geomancy vs Wobbuffet
18:36	Theorymon	which is the dumbest possible move ever
18:37	Theorymon	thinking back though
18:37	Theorymon	gen 5 was really weird in its balancedness
18:37	Theorymon	the more I played gen 5 the more I was surpried
18:37	Theorymon	I will be honest though edgar
18:37	Theorymon	I have never
18:37	Theorymon	cared about team versatility ever lol
18:38	Theorymon	I just want to play in a format that pretty much never does suspect tests, and keeps its banlist pretty static. its the whole reason I started playing in Ubers in the first place 5 years ago
18:38	Theorymon	dunno how many people hold that view
18:38	Theorymon	fyi the gen 5 suspect tests
18:38	Theorymon	where more of a PR thing
18:39	edgar	yeah
18:39	edgar	I was like w.e with the suspect tests
18:39	edgar	I didnt think they were necessary
18:40	edgar	but I understand your position
18:40	Theorymon	they weren't lol
18:40	Theorymon	the idea was
18:40	Theorymon	to get people to start playing Ubers more with a badge carrot lol
18:40	Theorymon	it uhh
18:40	Theorymon	didnt really work out as hoped
18:40	edgar	you've been playing for more time than I have so
18:40	Theorymon	well this does sorta interest me
18:40	Theorymon	maybe its a difference in mindset
18:40	Theorymon	caused by how different gen 4 and 5 ended up being
18:40	edgar	I think I'll drop the xerneas thing, I dont have much time to do such a thing and not many people support it I guess
18:40	Theorymon	gen 4 Ubers was like
18:41	Theorymon	an ultra fast paced metagame
18:41	edgar	so thanks for your opinion bro
18:41	edgar	
18:41	Theorymon	no problem
18:41	Theorymon	though hmmm
18:41	Theorymon	I wonder
18:41	Theorymon	if we could host
18:41	Theorymon	a "balanced Ubers" tournament
18:41	Theorymon	and ban certain things
18:41	Theorymon	without actually banning them for real
18:41	edgar	yea
18:41	edgar	that would be coo
18:41	edgar	l
18:42	edgar	that's a good idea actually
18:42	Theorymon	this sorta reminds me of the whole Farceus situation
18:43	Theorymon	fyi Farceus sorta caused a split in the Ubers userbase
18:43	Theorymon	some of us
18:43	Theorymon	actually quit shoddy and went to PO to use Arceus
18:43	edgar	lol
18:43	Theorymon	some people wanted to mantain the status quo
18:43	Theorymon	you know
18:43	Theorymon	when we do the whole multigen Ubers forum thing
18:43	Theorymon	maybe can have "other Uber metagames"
18:43	Theorymon	like atm Im planning on
18:43	Theorymon	posting a Farceus thread in the forum when that happens
18:43	edgar	nice :]
18:44	Theorymon	because a lot of people didn't experience
18:44	Theorymon	the Farceus metagame
18:44	Theorymon	the funny thing about it
18:44	Theorymon	is that it actually
18:44	Theorymon	had quite a few simlarties to gen 5
18:44	Theorymon	Farceus massively
18:44	Theorymon	slowed down gen 4
18:44	Theorymon	lol I actually remember when gen 5 started
18:44	Theorymon	some players
18:44	Theorymon	where very unhappy with how the game started to get slower
18:44	Theorymon	bceause gen 4 was sorta notrious for being a metagame where "you never feel safe"
18:49	Theorymon	btw, I hear your're an Ubers youtuber?
18:50	Theorymon	because I think thats awesome, I didnt hear about having a competent Ubers youtuber till recently =)
18:52	edgar	they're basically extinct
18:52	edgar	lol
18:52	edgar	and thanks bro
18:53	edgar	that was like my only rant video tho haha
18:53	Theorymon	lol
18:53	edgar	I mostly do live sessions showcasing teams that I like to use
18:53	Theorymon	I can barely hear what you're saying (my comp's sound is sorta borked)
18:53	edgar	ha.
18:53	Theorymon	but okay lol
18:54	Theorymon	also I just posted there, I think thats the only time I actually made a youtube comment rofl
18:54	edgar	LOL
18:56	Theorymon	lol I wonder how gen 5's userbase would have reacted to those gen 4 Mew BP teams. while Im extremely against banning almost anything in Ubers, this has made me wonder
18:56	Theorymon	if gen 5's balncedness has raised a very different generation of Uber players
18:56	Theorymon	than the ones from gen 4
18:56	Theorymon	we did lose a lot of old users in the transition last gen
18:57	edgar	yeah
18:57	Theorymon	a lot of it was due to real life factors
18:57	edgar	the ubers community is waay more active than it was in bw2 I think
18:57	Theorymon	but I knew a few quit
18:57	Theorymon	because they where really pissed off
18:57	Theorymon	about the slower pace of gen 5 lol
18:57	Theorymon	I remember some Uber players
18:57	Theorymon	actually wanted not just Arceus banned
18:57	Theorymon	but also Ferrothorn
18:57	Theorymon	Im serious lol
18:57	Theorymon	that used to be a thing
18:57	edgar	lol
18:57	edgar	ferro?
18:58	edgar	really
18:58	edgar	?
18:58	Theorymon	yeah
18:58	Theorymon	Ferrothorn
18:58	Theorymon	screwed up a lot of old gen 4 strategies
18:58	Theorymon	though that
18:58	Theorymon	was more firnge than the Arceus ban talk
18:59	Theorymon	I think there was actually a torunament that banned Ferrothorn and Arceus lol
18:59	Theorymon	now Im not saying that
18:59	edgar	fuk ferro
18:59	edgar	?
18:59	Theorymon	Mega Gengar and Xerneas are just people being resistant to change
18:59	Theorymon	yeah
18:59	Theorymon	but seeing two generation shifts
19:00	Theorymon	is making me wonder how a generation shift effects policy
19:00	Theorymon	because it seems to me like
19:00	Theorymon	very few people actually
19:00	Theorymon	last more than two gens
19:00	Theorymon	a lot of people seem to
19:00	Theorymon	start in one gen
19:00	Theorymon	play a lot in the next
19:00	Theorymon	then fizzle out in the third gen they play
19:00	edgar	I started in bw in 2012 
19:01	edgar	early 2012
19:01	edgar	I really enjoyed BW
19:01	Theorymon	theres a common joke among old battlers
19:01	Theorymon	who say that
19:01	edgar	lol really
19:01	Theorymon	the smogon of today
19:01	edgar	what is it
19:01	Theorymon	would ban Snorlax in gen 2
19:01	edgar	lol
19:01	Theorymon	fyi apprently Snorlax is the best Pokemon in gen 2 by far, EVEN in Ubers
19:01	Theorymon	but the userbase at the time
19:02	Theorymon	just didnt like the idea
19:02	Theorymon	of banning a Pokémon that wasn't legendary
19:02	Theorymon	and wasn't banned by "Nintendo"
19:02	edgar	oh
19:03	Theorymon	they felt like it was okay for a Pokémon to just be the best, and to use Pokémon just because "well fuck that thing"
19:03	Theorymon	not saying either one is better
19:03	edgar	yeah, you do make a lot of valid points, I guess I should watch how this gen develops 
19:03	Theorymon	but this situation has been making me think
19:03	Theorymon	I sometimes wonder if Smogon needs more metagames than it has... considering the huge amount of debate tiering causes
19:04	Theorymon	but I dunno if we have the userbase to pull something like that off
19:05	edgar	ya
19:06	Theorymon	anyways it was nice chatting with ya. I'm probably gonna talk to some Uber mods about this stuff later, didn't know the ban talk was starting to gain traction
19:06	Theorymon	well like
19:06	Theorymon	I didnt see any of it till today
19:07	edgar	yeah I got a few people's opinions
19:07	edgar	I actually pm'd hugen about this
19:07	Theorymon	but still, I was pretty surprised. even if it does sorta remind me of the whole "ban Arceus" campagin of early gen 5
19:07	edgar	but you make a lot of solid arguments
19:07	edgar	for me to doubt
19:07	edgar	thanks a lot to you man
19:08	Theorymon	np
19:08	edgar	for approaching :]