(10:41:21 AM) DrHockenberry [Mibbit@synIRC-21B33EDE.neo.res.rr.com] entered the room.
(10:41:29 AM) TheGreekOwl: >Modified Beretta M9 pistol with miniature pump-action shotgun barrel
(10:41:31 AM) TheGreekOwl: PFTTTTT
(10:41:38 AM) ***TheGreekOwl rolfs.
(10:41:42 AM) thereminator: oh god
(10:41:45 AM) thereminator: where did you find that
(10:41:45 AM) Warscribe: wat
(10:41:49 AM) Eskobear: QUE TIMING
(10:41:55 AM) thereminator: it's CUE
(10:42:11 AM) TheGreekOwl: http://ci-wiki.wikidot.com/ci-military/comments/show#post-2038673 read
(10:42:15 AM) Eskobear: no, "que" as in "what" and I don't know either the French or Spanish for "timing"
(10:42:23 AM) Warscribe: miniature pump action shotgun
(10:42:27 AM) thereminator: what
(10:42:40 AM) thereminator: then just say "WHAT TIMING"
(10:42:45 AM) Eskobear: NO
(10:42:47 AM) DrHockenberry: Hello everyone, anyone (Hint, Hint Echo) wanna have a nice talk about M4s
(10:42:48 AM) Eskobear: I AM CONTINENTAL AND SHIT
(10:42:50 AM) Warscribe: that moment when your miniature design is bogger than the thing that is supposed to house it
(10:43:13 AM) Warscribe: what you wanna hear about M4s?
(10:43:18 AM) TheGreekOwl: The m9 with the pump action shotgun bareel just
(10:43:22 AM) Tox: ?!
(10:43:24 AM) TheGreekOwl: I almost died laughing
(10:43:39 AM) Tox: DrHockenberry: why would you replace the M4 platform with facking fnfal 2000s
(10:43:41 AM) DrHockenberry: yes, I want to find something better than an M4
(10:43:45 AM) Warscribe: they are one of the most versatile, cheap in mass, and accurate rifles you can find
(10:43:58 AM) thereminator: oh gee, that's awful.
(10:44:01 AM) Eskobear: okay, i'm now going to dispense all of the knowledge I have about "why you choose a particular gun platform to supply a military force"
(10:44:02 AM) Warscribe: i could suggest the G36
(10:44:16 AM) Warscribe: but i heard they are prone to falling apart
(10:44:18 AM) Eskobear: and that is "you want something extremely, extremely common so that ammo can be swapped between guns"
(10:44:23 AM) thereminator: DrHockenberry, use the SG55x series
(10:44:24 AM) Tox: DrHockenberry: Okay, let me level with you for a second
(10:44:27 AM) Eskobear: you don't /want/ interesting, you want boring and reliable
(10:44:37 AM) Eskobear: hence, the M4
(10:44:43 AM) Warscribe: esko
(10:44:46 AM) Warscribe: that argument is moot
(10:44:55 AM) Warscribe: because like evrery other rifle accepts STANAGs
(10:44:55 AM) Tox: you're like, 13 or some shit. Don't try to be all tacticool with your shit if you don't know what you're talking about.
(10:45:09 AM) thereminator: SG551 SB with STANAG lower pls
(10:45:18 AM) Eskobear: warscribe: but I thought the magazines were incompatable?
(10:45:24 AM) Eskobear: I thought STANAG was literally just the cartridge?
(10:45:26 AM) Warscribe: G36 with STANAG magcath :D
(10:45:36 AM) TheGreekOwl: DrHockenberry: Are you the guy that wrote that CI arsenal list?
(10:45:43 AM) Warscribe: my g36 could load all what the M4 can load
(10:45:47 AM) Warscribe: the FN2000 can too
(10:45:53 AM) Warscribe: the Tavor 21 can too
(10:46:00 AM) DrHockenberry: I know, but certain abmins want to keep the standerd M4. I feel we need something original for CI. FN F2000 is just to hold us over until it is finished
(10:46:07 AM) Tox: DrHockenberry: no
(10:46:09 AM) Tox: stop
(10:46:13 AM) Eskobear: What was the specific issue with the FN2000, then? Accuracy?
(10:46:13 AM) Tox: keep the facking M4
(10:46:14 AM) TheGreekOwl: DrHockenberry: Froget that
(10:46:16 AM) TheGreekOwl: >Modified Beretta M9 pistol with miniature pump-action shotgun barrel
(10:46:18 AM) TheGreekOwl: THis is just
(10:46:21 AM) Eskobear: weight, maybe?
(10:46:21 AM) Warscribe: fn200 is plastic
(10:46:22 AM) TheGreekOwl: This is going to my collection
(10:46:22 AM) Tox: and yeah
(10:46:23 AM) Warscribe: and jammy
(10:46:24 AM) Tox: what the fuck
(10:46:30 AM) Tox: you have NO ROOM ON AN M9
(10:46:31 AM) thereminator: Eskobear, it had that awful design problem when jammed
(10:46:39 AM) Tox: TO MOUNT A DAMN SHOTGUN BARREL
(10:46:44 AM) TheGreekOwl: Tox: Don';t try to think about it
(10:46:47 AM) Tox: it's going to hold maybe one round
(10:46:48 AM) TheGreekOwl: Your sides will explode
(10:46:51 AM) Warscribe: you cant open the bolt when it jaammed or something
(10:46:53 AM) Eskobear: ah
(10:46:53 AM) Tox: and the recoil's going to suck
(10:46:58 AM) TheGreekOwl: Tox: http://ci-wiki.wikidot.com/ci-military/comments/show#post-2038683 read it here
(10:47:02 AM) TheGreekOwl: It gets sillier
(10:47:07 AM) Warscribe: id also suggest the SCAR
(10:47:21 AM) DrHockenberry: Its not that I hate M4s. It's that EVERYONE is using them.
(10:47:26 AM) Tox: DrHockenberry: hey
(10:47:26 AM) Warscribe: but i dont know much about it
(10:47:28 AM) Tox: did you think
(10:47:29 AM) Tox: maybe
(10:47:30 AM) thereminator: also, what is it with the "aesthetically modified M9"
(10:47:31 AM) Tox: just maybe
(10:47:36 AM) Tox: THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT
(10:47:43 AM) DrHockenberry: And we already have SCAR
(10:47:44 AM) thereminator: what's the aesthetical modification for?
(10:47:52 AM) Warscribe: because its a fucking good gun for the all around purpose
(10:48:12 AM) Warscribe: i mean theres like as much attachments for it as for the G36
(10:48:19 AM) Tox: "acaralle modified"
(10:48:23 AM) Tox: whatt he fuck
(10:48:26 AM) Warscribe: you can also still customize the M4
(10:48:27 AM) Tox: does that mean
(10:48:31 AM) TheGreekOwl: DrHockenberry: Dude just
(10:48:34 AM) Warscribe: different buttstocks, for instance
(10:48:40 AM) Warscribe: handrails or handguards
(10:48:45 AM) Warscribe: scope, sights
(10:48:48 AM) Warscribe: barrel length
(10:48:54 AM) Warscribe: Beowulf pack
(10:49:06 AM) Tox: the M4 is a fucking venerable platform for a reason
(10:49:17 AM) DrHockenberry: Also, how much funding would the Chaos Insurgency actually have? Certainly not as much as SCP
(10:49:26 AM) Warscribe: m203, masterkey..
(10:49:38 AM) Warscribe: in that case go for the fucking m4
(10:49:41 AM) Warscribe: thats another reason
(10:49:46 AM) Tox: you're getting off topic DrHockenberry
(10:49:49 AM) Eskobear: Couldn't you get M4s a lot cheaper than FN /anything/?
(10:49:54 AM) Warscribe: the only thing reasonable and cheaper would be AKs
(10:49:56 AM) Eskobear: black market if nothing else
(10:50:06 AM) Tox: Warscribe: and not really even then
(10:50:16 AM) Warscribe: yes
(10:50:28 AM) Warscribe: the price/performance may kill the AK there
(10:50:30 AM) Tox: Echo's said that the only reason you'd get AKs is if you literally can't afford anything else
(10:50:49 AM) Warscribe: its a cheap gun for spray-pray
(10:51:02 AM) Warscribe: the attahcments are shit, youd be better off hip-firing
(10:51:27 AM) Warscribe: and also, hockenberry: if you cna have scars
(10:51:30 AM) Warscribe: have fucking scars
(10:51:39 AM) Warscribe: they are as versatile as the m4
(10:51:51 AM) DrHockenberry: Scars are in my top 5
(10:51:51 AM) Warscribe: and can also look with atatchments like "from One cast"
(10:52:11 AM) Warscribe: thats the cool thing about scars. their attahcments blend into the housing
(10:52:26 AM) Warscribe: which you may find aesthetically more pleasing
(10:52:50 AM) Warscribe: same as G36, but as said, they seeme dto have some problems
(10:53:22 AM) DrHockenberry: SCAR-H for assault, and SCAR-L for tactician style shit
(10:53:33 AM) Eskobear: eh
(10:53:43 AM) Eskobear: I would think you'd want the -L for assault for speed
(10:53:45 AM) Warscribe: tactician style shit. lol
(10:53:46 AM) Warscribe: yes
(10:53:51 AM) Tox: what the fuck
(10:53:52 AM) Warscribe: l means Light
(10:54:00 AM) Tox: "tactician style shit" DrHockenberry are you serious with this
(10:54:02 AM) Warscribe: for a reason
(10:54:05 AM) Tox: what does that even /mean/
(10:54:24 AM) DrHockenberry: Tactical is what it means
(10:54:30 AM) Tox: again
(10:54:32 AM) Tox: what does that mean
(10:54:39 AM) Eskobear: Define the term, please.
(10:54:41 AM) Eskobear: In context.
(10:54:45 AM) Warscribe: http://imgur.com/1hzJFpW
(10:54:48 AM) Warscribe: all of that g36
(10:55:21 AM) Eskobear: warscribe: didn't we ask the prescient question "how the fuck do bullet make to in barrel"
(10:55:44 AM) Warscribe: what
(10:55:49 AM) Tox: Warscribe: no offense but that mockup looks dumb as shit
(10:55:54 AM) Warscribe: i know
(10:55:56 AM) TheGreekOwl left the room (quit: Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client).
(10:56:05 AM) Warscribe: http://imgur.com/Qeikl9K
(10:56:08 AM) DrHockenberry: Alright, I came here for expert advice, right now I'm pinned in between G36, M4, SCAR, and AUG
(10:56:13 AM) Warscribe: this is the one i used for mine
(10:56:17 AM) Eskobear: M4. Do the M4.
(10:56:29 AM) Tox: why would you ever use a steyr aug if you have access to an M4
(10:56:32 AM) Eskobear: Fuck aesthetics.
(10:56:33 AM) Warscribe: M4 or Scar
(10:56:48 AM) Warscribe: the aug has been fucked over because of restrictions
(10:57:09 AM) Eskobear: Wouldn't SCAR be a little cost-prohibitive if you're worried about budget?
(10:57:13 AM) Warscribe: yes
(10:57:17 AM) Warscribe: so in that case M4
(10:57:49 AM) Eskobear: Hell, technically, the CI might not even /have/ a standardized thing past STANAG. At the point in the CI's development that is depicted, they might still be using just whatever weaponry the tactical forces they have already had.
(10:58:09 AM) Tox: which would be pretty dumb, all things considered
(10:58:28 AM) Warscribe: tox, heres something dumb: http://imgur.com/b6S45f4
(10:58:30 AM) Eskobear: I mean, if you're /literally/ a small paramilitary force thrown together post-uprising
(10:58:43 AM) Tox: lol dem sights
(10:58:51 AM) Eskobear: you might not have had a chance to hit up K-Mart's Blue Light Special on assault rifles
(10:59:23 AM) DrHockenberry: We're a little more than para-millitary. But you have a point
(10:59:45 AM) Warscribe: little more than paramilitary?
(10:59:54 AM) Warscribe: does the CI have its own nation or what?
(10:59:54 AM) Maddy [sleeping@comfy.nest] entered the room.
(11:00:06 AM) DrUnderwood: lol
(11:00:14 AM) Tox: what does that mean
(11:00:19 AM) Tox: and what do /you/ mean 'we'
(11:00:40 AM) Warscribe: PMCs are still paramilitary, afaik
(11:01:16 AM) DrHockenberry: Ahh
(11:01:36 AM) Eskobear: if you're a military force and you're not connected to a government or nation in some way, I'm pretty sure you're paramilitary.
(11:01:45 AM) Eskobear: Though that is coming directly out of my ass.
(11:01:47 AM) Tox: that's literally the definition of paramilitary
(11:02:25 AM) Echo: DrHockenberry: There you are
(11:02:32 AM) DrHockenberry: Alright, I guess The Insurgency is paramilitary. Now we can work from here...
(11:03:42 AM) Echo: I'm the one who sent you the wikidot PM a couple weeks back.
(11:04:34 AM) DrHockenberry: Alrighty, your opinions on HK416? Just curious.
(11:04:49 AM) Echo: G36 series rifles suffer from some problems that render them less than suitable for a calm day at a gun range, much less a combat zone.
(11:04:49 AM) DrHockenberry: Still using M4 tho
(11:05:26 AM) Echo: AUGs are completely unsuitable for close range use, regardless of the hype about bullpups and CQB for about a thousand different reasons I can elaborate on if you so desire.
(11:05:59 AM) Echo: SCARs are about expensive as a motherfucker. Top of the line shit, but you can buy half a dozen M4s for what a single SCAR system costs.
(11:06:10 AM) DrHockenberry: Ok, it looks like M4s fo' the CI then
(11:06:13 AM) Echo: And the HK416?
(11:06:28 AM) Echo: It's a less effective knockoff of the M4.
(11:06:50 AM) Echo: That will eventually wear out its guts quicker and reach the end of its operating life faster.
(11:07:52 AM) DrHockenberry: ok
(11:08:51 AM) Echo: What, uh...
(11:09:00 AM) Echo: What exactly is a "combat suit" supposed to be
(11:09:01 AM) DrHockenberry: ?
(11:09:13 AM) Warscribe: combat armor?
(11:09:25 AM) DrHockenberry: idk, something CDC came up with I guess
(11:10:21 AM) Warscribe: maybe he meant the OTV with these ceramic inlays? they look pretty boss
(11:10:27 AM) Echo: >_>
(11:10:54 AM) Echo: DrHockenberry: All right
(11:11:09 AM) Echo: What's the difference between an operator and a field operator
(11:11:59 AM) DrHockenberry: I honestly don't know. Caduceus made the CI Military page, so I trusted his opinion
(11:12:06 AM) DrHockenberry: until now
(11:14:08 AM) Echo: Ah.
(11:14:10 AM) Echo: That's weird.
(11:14:17 AM) Echo: He said you came up with all that.
(11:14:38 AM) DrHockenberry: NO
(11:14:51 AM) DrHockenberry: I came up with Cotton Polymer
(11:15:14 AM) Eskobear: yeah, pretty much everybody who's talked in guntalk about the CI's military armaments package has all said someone else came up with it
(11:15:19 AM) Eskobear: weird how that happens
(11:15:51 AM) DrHockenberry: hmm, well what should I change it too?
(11:16:17 AM) Echo: Well, the thing is that "combat suit" doesn't even mean anything
(11:16:28 AM) Echo: Like, the words there mean something separately, obviously
(11:16:41 AM) Echo: But put together, that's not a thing or a concept that exists.
(11:17:10 AM) DrHockenberry: So, Combat Uniform? I don't know
(11:17:34 AM) Echo: Well, there's not really any standardizing that.
(11:17:50 AM) Echo: Well, there is, but it's expensive to do.
(11:18:01 AM) DrHockenberry: ...
(11:18:03 AM) Echo: You know what the United States Marine Corps is, right?
(11:18:31 AM) DrHockenberry: Yeah, I only live in the US
(11:18:59 AM) Echo: We have 9 different combat uniforms.
(11:19:41 AM) Echo: In four different kinds of camouflage, and three different solid tones over those 9 uniforms.
(11:20:16 AM) Echo: On account of even your *clothing* might be determined by your mission.
(11:20:50 AM) Echo: M4A2 Carbine Rifle
(11:21:08 AM) Echo: What, pray, in the unholy name of Lucifer, is an M4A2
(11:21:38 AM) Warscribe: M4 with the config A2, which is afaik iron sights M203
(11:21:47 AM) Warscribe: this is how theyre called here
(11:21:54 AM) Echo: No.
(11:22:12 AM) Echo: That...
(11:22:15 AM) Echo: Argh.
(11:23:03 AM) Warscribe: did he take his gun labelling from airsoft guns?
(11:23:12 AM) Warscribe: thats the M4A2 airsoft http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0HiLcNWFlkY/TT8B0-6PXwI/AAAAAAAAACk/h6xSrtkmGkM/s1600/IMG_0013.JPG
(11:23:21 AM) Echo: He may have.
(11:23:48 AM) DrHockenberry: I know Wikipedia isn't a reliable source, but for quick reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushmaster_M4_Type_Carbine "M4A2 or M4A3 configurations"
(11:23:51 AM) Echo: M4A2s don't exist, except as a brand label by an AR manufacturing company.
(11:24:47 AM) Warscribe: All variants of the rifle are available in either M4A2 and M4A3 configurations; the difference being the M4A3 has a removable carry handle allowing access to a Picatinny rail for mounting accessories. Similarly, the 6.8mm SPC Rifle is available as either the A2 or the A3.
(11:25:10 AM) Warscribe: shakr punching center rifle. xD
(11:25:27 AM) Echo: Ah, that.
(11:25:31 AM) DrHockenberry: Probably gonna change it to the A3
(11:25:44 AM) Echo: Okay, yeah, you were looking at Bushmaster; also note that that's not a type of weapon
(11:25:49 AM) Warscribe: yeah. scope on the handguard looks silly afaik
(11:26:01 AM) Warscribe: you should look at the Stoner
(11:26:01 AM) Echo: That's a style that they offer one of their rifle lines in.
(11:26:31 AM) Warscribe: shoudlve looked at this
(11:26:32 AM) Warscribe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_carbine
(11:26:37 AM) Echo: Well, I guess the nomenclature works.
(11:27:01 AM) Warscribe: The M4 has selective fire options including semi-automatic and three-round burst (like the M16A2 and M16A4), while the M4A1 has the capability to fire fully automatic instead of three-round burst (like the M16A1 and M16A3).
(11:27:24 AM) Echo: Warscribe: Those are specifically US military rifles, btw
(11:27:50 AM) Echo: All "M16" describes is what the military calls a very specific configuration of AR15 rifle.
(11:28:04 AM) Warscribe: aye
(11:28:56 AM) Warscribe: say, is the Beowulf a name on its own, or is it a suffix?
(11:29:17 AM) Echo: It's part of the name of a caliber
(11:30:00 AM) Echo: For example, .50 Browning Machine Gun is the round the M2 heavy machine gun fires
(11:30:15 AM) Warscribe: like, how would you call a beowulf enable AR15
(11:30:18 AM) Echo: Without using measurements, its name sets it aside from other cartridges of the same caliber
(11:30:33 AM) Echo: You mean one that fires .50 Beowulf?
(11:30:37 AM) Warscribe: yes
(11:30:54 AM) Warscribe: just .50 Beowulf M16?
(11:31:04 AM) Echo: Well
(11:31:10 AM) Echo: If it fired .50 Beowulf
(11:31:16 AM) Echo: It wouldn't be an M16 anymore.
(11:31:19 AM) Warscribe: ah
(11:31:56 AM) Echo: See what I'm getting at?
(11:31:56 AM) DrHockenberry: gtg
(11:32:00 AM) DrHockenberry left the room.