23:08 : Agnes|osu has made a request for action (#osu: Timoteo_Cabral Line spam). 23:09 : !kill Timoteo_Cabral Spam in #osu 23:09 : Timoteo_Cabral has been silenced for another 5 minutes (http://osu.ppy.sh/u/1348129). 23:12 : I just silenced angle12|osu for spamming #osu (automated server protection) (5 minutes). 23:12 : !silence lilpink12546 spam 23:12 : Did you mean KILL? 23:12 : !kill lilpink12546 spam 23:12 : lilpink12546 has been silenced for another 10 minutes (http://osu.ppy.sh/u/1447937). 23:13 : Bancho's pretty aggressive. 23:17 : !kill SFRfaceplant spam 23:17 : SFRfaceplant has been silenced for another 10 minutes (http://osu.ppy.sh/u/1274611). 23:22 : I just silenced SEEBAL_NOM_AH|osu for spamming #osu (automated server protection) (40 minutes). 23:22 : !kill icehead9 spam 23:22 : icehead9 has been silenced for another 5 minutes (http://osu.ppy.sh/u/1004335). 23:22 : osu : http://osu.ppy.sh/u/1004335 23:22 : id : icehead9|osu!icehead9@1.176.65.138 23:22 : channels : #osu #announce #korean #lobby 23:22 : status : Silenced for 283 seconds 23:22 : !whois SEEBAL_NOM_AH 23:22 : osu : http://osu.ppy.sh/u/1018719 23:22 : id : SEEBAL_NOM_AH|osu!SEEBAL_NOM_AH@220.76.112.20 23:22 : channels : #osu 23:22 : status : Silenced for 2346 seconds 23:22 : aww yeah cleainin up the stuff 23:22 : gj 23:30 : I just silenced Apricot|osu for spamming CaesarSalad (automated server protection) (5 minutes). 23:32 : I just silenced Kagamine Lenka|osu for spamming rlaejrdud44 (automated server protection) (5 minutes). 23:39 : !kill lilpink12546 spam caps etc 23:39 : lilpink12546 has been silenced for another 20 minutes (http://osu.ppy.sh/u/1447937). 23:42 : osu : http://osu.ppy.sh/u/1457432 23:42 : id : hudgeba778|osu!hudgeba778@65.36.102.213 23:42 : channels : #osu #announce #videogames 23:42 : status : normal 23:42 : !whois lilpink12546 23:42 : osu : http://osu.ppy.sh/u/1447937 23:42 : id : lilpink12546|osu!lilpink12546@68.193.95.20 23:42 : channels : #osu #announce #videogames 23:42 : status : Silenced for 1034 seconds 00:16 : thoughts on this slider rankable? http://puu.sh/l7re 00:16 : When unranking, that one wasn't mentioned 00:16 : because in my book that is a big hell no 00:17 : I never pointed out sliders tho 00:17 : I only loced the thread 00:17 : locked* 00:17 : those are basiclly the same thing 00:18 : if you can give me one good reason they should be shaped like that... no I don't think even then I would rethink it 00:18 : I just silenced Apricot|osu for spamming CaesarSalad (automated server protection) (10 minutes). 00:18 : The small "tail" at the end of this one is sightreadable in my opinion, and it's a style choice by the mapper. 00:18 : burai sliders are ugly and not needed 00:18 : So, I understand that you don't like it and that's okay but is it really unrankable? 00:18 : yes it is 00:19 : that's not even burai slider plz? 00:19 : it is overlapping back into the slider path 00:19 : Why didn't jericho point it out when originally unranking it? 00:19 : I'm not jericho 00:20 : http://puu.sh/l7sx 00:20 : there is no reason for the sliders to fold into themselves 00:20 : http://puu.sh/l7sD 00:20 : Okay, let's get some other opinions 00:20 : the former one is not a burai slider but the latter one is? 00:20 : man... 00:21 : the latter is almost in the entire slider track 00:21 : what is your point for even making them like that 00:21 : what do you gain? 00:21 : it's perfectly readable, do you really need to against player that much 00:21 : style thing 00:21 : It's just how he'd like to make his sliders 00:22 : I mean, do you really find it unreadable? 00:22 : i hope you're not trying to make everyone else mapping the same way 00:22 : so your style is to make ugly sliders fair enough, I'm still not letting it through. 00:22 : No I'm not 00:22 : but there are tons of correct ways to make sliders 00:22 : these are basicly sliders with holds at the end 00:22 : if you would 00:23 : I understand ztrot's point, he wants sliders to be clearly readable 00:23 : it is get to the end and wait to see what happens 00:23 : However, I think that this is a good compromise from "hold at the end" like in Aitai and a linear curve 00:23 : not all of us have fancy snaking sliders enabled 00:23 : I've had snaking sliders disabled since I started and I found it readable 00:24 : if the curves weren't going back into the slidertrack we would not have a problem 00:24 : Again, let's get other opinions 00:24 : Gonzvlo, your presence is needed 00:25 : D:? 00:25 : I just silenced shinjiko-san|osu for spamming #filipino (automated server protection) (5 minutes). 00:25 : it's fine to give out your own opinion ztrot, but i hope you won't brought those things when it comes to a ranking period 00:25 : ugly/correct 00:26 : Uhh well see that is where the problem lies these are ugly and incorrect. 00:26 *SapphireGhost is editing (Megpoid GUMI - Justice Breaker)[http://osu.ppy.sh/s/41616] 00:26 : it is a shame too most the sldiers in this are made well 00:26 : 01:16:726 (3) - Sliders like this rankable/unrankable is the question, Gonz 00:26 : only a handfull of bad ones 00:27 : ugly/bad is your thoughts, i won't and can't change that 00:27 : but rankable/unrankable is very objective 00:27 : no 00:27 : that part is pretty clear 00:27 : it is the ugly/bad that is objective 00:27 : lol 00:28 : Wiat, ugly/bad is objective...? 00:28 : ugly is in the eye of the beholder 00:28 : but unrankable is not as grey as that 00:29 : But I thought you just said it was objective or am I missing something 00:29 : sujective tamato tomato 00:30 : I'm not going to let it through I'm sorry but I have my standards as a BAT nothing personal. 00:30 : Okay, thanks for your opinion. 00:30 : So what do you think, Gonz? 00:30 : but you can get your own map through with weird spread? nothing personal? ok. ends. 00:30 : Alright, I don't find it ugly myself, but that's just my opinion 00:31 : Gonz? may i ask you to re-rank that? 00:31 : So, one BAT for and one against 00:31 : I just silenced nyannkorojkl|osu for spamming pis-pis (automated server protection) (10 minutes). 00:31 : (the only thing changed is the slider jericho mentioned. 00:31 : The problem with burai sliders is that these sliders have ambiguous paths 00:31 : But this slider is not that bad, in my opinion, it could slide 00:31 : The path is pretty obvious 00:31 : and I'll unrank it as fast as you rank it 00:32 : :I 00:32 : sliding standards lead to downfall in map qualtiy 00:32 : Unranks have to be discussed, don't they? 00:32 : and I for one am tired of seeing it decline. 00:32 : We don't "undo" other BAT's actions without previous discussion with the team :I 00:32 : Let's discuss this a bit more 00:32 : Okay, this slider that looks a bit strange to you is not the downfall of map quality 00:32 : well funny thing is I'm about to pop it seeing as I was asked to look and give my input 00:33 : I'm doing just that 00:33 : you don't have the rights to do it if nothing unrankable 00:33 : ztrot has a valid argument though 00:33 : I'm not being a dick I'm enforcing my standards 00:34 : I don't know, I still think it could use more discussion within the team 00:34 : The slider could be considered as a burai one since it's slightly overlapping its own path. We need to define a burai slider 00:34 : I think the burai slider rule was put into place to prevent sliders that go back and forth on themselves to the point where you have no idea where 00:34 : it's going 00:34 : http://puu.sh/l7yH 00:35 : this is an original burai slider as i know 00:35 : it's of course unrankable 00:35 : Here, you can see the start and end of the slider, and it's pretty obvious to a player that they can draw a line from the start to end point 00:35 : but some guys want to overuse that things to force some styles 00:35 : as i could see 00:35 : it goes in almost the other way 00:36 : Did you have trouble sightreading it? 00:36 : it is doing basicly what we stopped letting burai skiders do in the 1st place 00:36 : the force in direction change is unintutive 00:36 : and not needed 00:36 : Rin, we know the slider is sort of "borderline". I'd let it slide myself but we would need the agreement of more members, ztrot thinks it has to be 00:36 : changed and we gotta respect that. May we skip the whole drama and move the last control points a few grids? I'll re-rank it afterwards 00:36 : it's unintuitive? 00:36 : wait? 00:37 : But in terms of "was it difficult to sightread" is the answer yes or no? 00:37 : Yes it is 00:37 : (This)[http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/267480] would work, what do you think? 00:37 : I have no idea if it is going to stay in that spot or loop a bit 00:38 : that is because it is overlapping 00:38 : Technically, you could take any linear slider and say "I have no idea what this is going to do" 00:38 : "loop a bit" should never happen 00:38 : because of burai slider thing 00:38 : right? 00:38 : Because with proper use of linear points you can make it go back and forth however much you want. 00:38 : I just silenced ricardorulz|osu for spamming #german (automated server protection) (5 minutes). 00:38 : someone for all I know could chuck a fuck ton of red marks in that place 00:39 : Yes ztrot, but you can do that on any slider, not just this one 00:39 : it is the same reason we don't allow circles to hide undersliderpaths 00:39 : Well, that's not rankable :P 00:39 : http://puu.sh/l7AI do you see this shape 00:40 : that slider is like 3 grids away from being 100% no questions asked unrankable 00:40 : i could agree it's unrankable if i did the 3 grids 00:40 : so why let it slide when that is clealy what is is trying to go for 00:41 : 3 grids over and what do we have http://puu.sh/l7B6 00:41 : I think Rin is trying to get that feel while still making a rankable slider, and it's a compromise that works for players in my opinion 00:41 : that's true, but in the map, it's 3 grids away 00:41 : it's still rankable. 00:41 : it still is too confusing 00:41 : and not needed 00:42 : or you want to definate "3 is unrankable but 5 grids is good"? 00:42 : no this is good 00:42 : http://puu.sh/l7BE 00:43 : Alright, but "confusing / not needed" is not "unrankable" so even though you don't like this slider, you don't have to play this map that has a 00:43 : rankable thing that you personally don't like. 00:43 : but I'm done fighting get more bats to talk about it till then you have to wait 00:43 : not every map has to be ranked and if something can be improved it should. 00:43 : improved? 00:44 : Yes improved 00:44 : forcing your opinion is not a way of improving, always. 00:44 : ztrot, what do you think of (this)[http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/267487] ? 00:45 : it is more clear but I'm still not sure why half the end circle should be merged into the slider track 00:46 : like it is 00:46 : It's just a style choice. 00:46 : maybe mm201 needs to fine tune aimod to pick up on these things 00:49 : I've done what was asked of me I gave my input I felt the map needed inprovement I pointed out the areas I popped the bubble I'm not comfortable seeing 00:49 : this ranked in its current state I also noted that if the team would like to talk about it they are free to do so. 00:49 : you might think I have some sort of grudge or something but that couldn't be farther from the truth I'm just doing what I do. 00:50 : No hard feelings. 00:50 : ztrot, do you actually consider that slider that bad? Because I'm looking through the map and there are many similar sliders o3o 00:50 : I pointed them all out 00:50 : look at my post 00:50 : Oh, I just noticed 00:51 : http://puu.sh/l7EF 00:51 : unrankable 00:51 : do you know what you're talking about, mr 00:51 : I'd not agree with popping the bubble though. We still haven't reached an agreement on wether those should be considered burai (unrankable) or not D: 00:51 : whether* 00:51 : I don't want others jumping the gun 00:51 : without talking it out 00:52 : I'm handling this matter with caution 00:52 : I'd suggest to just leave the bubble and create a thread in the ML or HQ for further discussion 00:52 : I'm pretty sure that nobody will rank the map while your post is there 00:52 : NatsumeRin insults aren't going to get you very far. 00:52 : The discussion should be open to MAT and BAT, I think 00:52 : you'd be shocked gonz 00:53 : it is kinda why I'm talking in lounge 00:53 : :p 00:54 : It's just that popping the bubble will bring more drama in the thread and it feel like you're already forcing the changes 00:54 : feels* 00:54 : Gonzvlo are you telling me you don't think those slider are borderline 00:54 : you said your self YOU would let them slide 00:54 : not everyone would tho 00:55 : how about a vote 00:55 : like what i did for the mappers 00:55 : rofl 00:55 : results are easy to expect, let's wait for 1~2 days. 00:55 : lets not 00:55 : Maybe is discussion would be more productive, or not D: 00:55 : a* 00:56 : There's really nothing wrong with getting more opinions 00:56 : I'm not a bat to only follow rules to a tee I'm here to use my commen sense and judgment too. 00:56 : rules can never be solid that is why there are human mods 00:57 : to stop things like this that are trying to slip threw the cracks 00:57 : the only excuse he has given me to keep these sliders are it's my style 00:57 : yet I have given a few reasons as to why he shouldn't use them 00:58 : you really want? 00:58 : i thought you said you won't reconsider 00:59 : if there is no logical reason to have the sliderpoints 3 ticks from being 100% overlapped then they shouldn't be there 00:59 : doesn't mean you can't try 01:00 : I'm not a tyrant if you have solid proof as to why they play best that way other than it is my stlye then commen ground can be reached 01:00 : common* 01:00 : 00:31:653 (2) - first one 01:00 : listen to the pitch 01:00 : then it goes sharply down 01:01 : also as a common sense 01:01 : red marks are there to create "sharp" 01:01 : you can see the following notes 01:01 : okay but you could do that without making the slider overlap so much 01:01 : 00:32:823 (4) - is going up 01:01 : no 01:01 : "sharply" 01:01 : that's basically the thing 01:01 : I just silenced ricardorulz|osu for spamming #lobby (automated server protection) (10 minutes). 01:02 : 01:16:140 (1) - 01:02 : it's more a placement need 01:02 : if the last point is parallel with the red point 01:03 : it becomes very straight 01:03 : and not the way i want 01:03 : 01:16:726 (3) - same 01:03 : 02:05:927 (1) - as already explained 01:03 : I'm just saying you can creat that sharp effect without making overlapping ends 01:03 : it first follows the flow 01:03 : create* 01:03 : man, if you understand what i mean 01:03 : you'll find it not 01:04 : your a decent mapper I'm sure you can. 01:04 : 02:05:927 (1) - come back 01:04 : a decent mapper should do all he could to make the map a best 01:04 : not trying to getting his own opinion changed by thousands of mods with different thoughts 01:04 : the map should be an idea for the song 01:05 : throughout the whold song. 01:05 : 02:05:927 (1) - firstly it follows the flow of previous notes 01:05 : then it went back/down for another parts 01:05 : as you can see at the following sliders 01:05 : it becomes wider and wider 01:05 : wait 01:06 : 03:18:518 (1) - same as 01:16 01:06 : the whole point of modding is to take that from others to make a better end product. 01:06 : not puush it all away and only go on what you want to see in a map. 01:07 : 03:27:299 (2) - means it's not 1/3 but it's still similar, and the next note is a "jump" feeling 01:07 : make it better, true 01:07 : 1. by correcting mistakes 01:07 : 2. by give better opinions 01:07 : ztrot, have you checked the other difficulties yet? 01:07 : this is not a mistake 01:07 : Rin, are you sure there's no way to modify some sliders while keeping the essence of the style? Just so we can turn those "borderline" sliders into "safe" 01:07 : slider and end this discussion D: 01:07 : it is late and I need to get to sleep you can have talks about it but do not relying on getting votes from users you know will say yes :p 01:08 : no way for at least 03:27:299 (2) - 01:08 : there is nothing objective if no one you ask has an objection 01:08 : 00:31 01:08 : 02:05 01:08 : What's wrong with getting people to agree with him? 01:08 : You can do that too, ztrot 01:08 : I could but where would that get us? 01:08 : We'd see what the community generally thinks about the sliders, and use that to make an informed decision. 01:09 : in a gaint dog pile of un-needed fighting 01:09 : and at the second point, ztrot, you're not giving better opinions 01:09 : just saying ugly/correct thing won't improve any 01:09 : Getting an agreement with the whole community would be too hard D: 01:09 : Really, I'm sorry if it offends you most the sliders look decent. 01:10 : If a discussion is needed then a MAT/BAT discussion should be enough 01:10 : getting anything community related is just looking for a green light. 01:10 : You don't need the whole community 01:10 : if you haven't noticed friends will blindly follow 01:11 : if they'll blindly follow 01:11 : i hope no offensive here 01:11 : ztrot, you have 100 ranked maps 01:11 : but not many mappers really "follow" you. 01:11 : That wasn't necessary :I 01:11 : I think ztrot's alright as a person but that doesn't necessarily mean I agree with his mapping opinions 01:11 : Not that it is even relevent 01:11 : i think it's not too 01:11 : but forcing opinion 01:12 : is really bitter 01:12 : I'm not a BAT because I don't know how to map. 01:13 : This is getting off-topic, I think that both have listened each other and there isn't much you can do to convince the other part 01:13 : it's true Gonz, but making a pop post at current state 01:13 : is... hehe. 01:14 : I think you have forgotten what those icons stand for 01:14 : If anything, make MAT/BATs vote for borderline cases from now on? 01:15 : a bubble means a user thinks it should be ready for ranking then to be given the once over by a BAT 01:15 : One could justify ztrot's bubble pop by saying "It shouldn't be ranked while the matter is still in discussion" 01:15 : BAT give is a once over if he dissapproves he pops 01:15 : ok just go for it, Gonz, will you start the post? 01:15 : (because you're a neutral one here, or most likely) 01:16 : Again, I will not keep taking these snide remarks. 01:16 : Okay... do we want a detailed discussion or just objective voting? 01:16 : maybe we need another discussion to definate burai sliders 01:16 : for this thing a vote is enough i guess? 01:16 : it is very professional 01:16 : I'd doubt we would reach an agreement though 01:16 : for this map a discussion like that would take years 01:17 : and not what i'd like to see. 01:17 : Voting is pointless it needs to be talked out not something you can just skim and click I support. 01:17 : Exactly, let's go for just votes I guess 01:17 : We're not getting anywhere :( 01:17 : Let's vote on whether to discuss or vote on this matter. 01:17 : ._. 01:17 : Well, I've given detailed reasons so far 01:17 : But wait, let's discuss on whether to discuss or vote on whether to whether to discuss or vote. 01:18 *Gonzvlo facepalms* 01:18 : be serious guys. 01:18 : How about just a thread for both discussion and voting? Done. 01:18 : you have yet to give any details to your backing other than it is my style and it is to match the music, sadly this can be done 1000 diffrent ways so the 01:18 : matter falls back into this is my stlye. 01:18 : what 01:18 : you haven't read? 01:18 : it's unbelievable 01:19 : I read and all you pointed out is that is how you as a person precives the song 01:19 : and it's my map not yours 01:19 : That's a good point. 01:19 : i don't know your point of making random symmetry jumps 01:20 : but i won't care that 01:20 : if a mapper doing a map withouth how he understands the song 01:20 : he'd better to die. 01:21 : what's this about? 01:21 : Also, ztrot, if the vote results shows MAT/BATs are supporting this 01:21 : you're required to rebubble/rank + apologize. 01:21 : i think i said all. 01:22 : @Faust: http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=69757&start=60 01:22 : Indirect attacks are not necessary, please focus on the matter :I